Magazine claims Page's red #3 Lester is a 1952

[huw]

:hmm

With nearly every magazine in the world having Led Zeppelin on the cover I nearly missed this, but in this month's Classic Rock special edition there is a short article about the guy who "in 1974" sold Jimmy Page a 1952 Les Paul, with humbuckers, which "became Jimmy Page's now celebrated red, bastardised, 1952 Les Paul". They have a photo of the receipt next to the article, dated 13/12/74 (that's December 13th in UK-speak )

WTF?

The guy who sold the guitar was Michael Corby of The Babys - I have no doubts at all that his story is genuine, but there are some things that just don't add up too easily.

Where to start...

First - Page can seen playing his "red, bastardised" Les Paul in a couple of section of the movie The Song Remains The Same, which was shot in 1973 - over a year before this sale.

Second - photos of the red guitar show the thick binding in the cutaway, as used in the '70s. This fits the commonly held belief that the guitar is a 1973 Deluxe, and contradicts the idea of it being a '52.

So I'm fairly certain that it just can't be that guitar that Corby sold to Page.

So which one is it? #2 made it's first appearance on the 1975 tour, but we know the serial number of that one, & it's a '59.

And anyway - a 1952? We all know that to make a '52 work with a bridge/TOM pairing would almost certainly require a neck re-set to get the angle right. Were 52/59 "conversions"s common-place back in the early '70s?

As if the world needs another Page Les Paul mystery...



Any ideas folks? I can't work this one out...

 

[redb]

I doubt they used the words "conversion". However, the 70s certainly wasnt too far removed from the people chopping up gibsons, if it had a neck that Jimmy REALLY liked, I see no reason why its not possible. However, just because this guy sold him a 52 rerouted for HBs, and even if Jimmy still has it, that doesnt automatically make it his number 3.

 

[jwalker]

Doesn't Plant have red vintage Les Paul with humbuckers? I wonder if he bought it from Page?

 

[huw]

...just because this guy sold him a 52 rerouted for HBs, and even if Jimmy still has it, that doesnt automatically make it his number 3.

I absolutely agree with you, but the thing that got me interested was that the man who sold it to him said that it was.

:hmm

 

[The Shifter]

Yeah, it was a rare prototype 52 LP, with a big headstock, and pancake body.

 

[torger]

Yeah, it was a rare prototype 52 LP, with a big headstock, and pancake body.

:laugh2:

 

[the399]

Yeah, it was a rare prototype 52 LP, with a big headstock, and pancake body.

+1 The pancake is clearly visible in photos

 

[les strat]

The red one in TSRTS (#3) is not a '52. Page has talked about this guitar a good bit in interviews.

 

[huw]

Looks like we all agree on this one then - Michael Corby may have sold Page a red 1952 LP, but it looks like he's mistaken in his belief that it became one of Page's main stage guitars.

 

[zosoledzep4yy]

Looks like we all agree on this one then - Michael Corby may have sold Page a red 1952 LP, but it looks like he's mistaken in his belief that it became one of Page's main stage guitars.

“This guitar has been repainted, appears to be a 1969 Les Paul Deluxe Goldtop, and has had the mini humbuckers replaced with regular humbuckers, which change the pitch of the B string via a hidden mechanism connected to the guitar's strap button. that changes the pitch of the B string.“-”The Jimmy Page Anthology.

“(5th US tour in '70) I bought this guitar from Mike Rudd in Memphis. He was involved in hot rods as well as guitars, so the finish on the guitar was a hot rod color. His uncle worked for Gibson and the guitar was assembled from various old and new parts. The neck was very easy to use. It was to receive a stringbender transformer, which was much better. It appears in the movie “THE SONG REMAINS THE SAME” in its pre-transformation state."-JIMMY PAGE

https://photos.app.goo.gl/DHD8tqCqsiUFtjp39

There are also theories that there are actually two red Les Pauls - with a clone of “Number Three” appearing in 1977.

The story of the man who jammed with Led Zeppelin then sold Jimmy Page his most famous guitar

"How I spent so many hours jamming with Jimmy and the entire line-up of Led Zeppelin is something I still have difficulty in coming to terms with to this day"

www.loudersound.com

There does seem to be some credibility to this theory as photographic evidence does show some visual differences between the guitars, but the red Les Paul There does seem to be some credibility to this theory as photographic evidence does show some visual differences between the guitars, but the red Les Paul was so sparsely used during that era, it's very hard to tell.

After half a day of comparing video stills and photos collected from the internet, I noticed that certain parts of the guitars were different!

“The Les Paul in the '77 tour photo is shorter in this area, whereas the Les Paul known as NO.3, familiar from the 73 MSG, is longer in this area.”
https://photos.app.goo.gl/8o5Dmd1ST4wRjgB48

You can see the different lengths of the guitar neck fretboard up to the tip of the neck beyond the 22nd fret.

So what year was that made? It is a 1952 Les Paul.
The way to tell the difference is that the “binding” around the edge of the body is wider on the cutaway on the '69 Les Paul and thinner on the '52 Les Paul.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/fC2m6C7xRyA/maxresdefault.jpg

This confirms theory that a “Number Three” clone existed for the 1977 tour only!

 

[zosoledzep4yy]

Jimmy purchased from Mike Rudd in Memphis during his 5th US tour, which later became the “number 3” Les Paul!

https://content.invisioncic.com/r149629/monthly_2024_07/jimmy-page-with-his-1969-gibson-les-paul-number-3-v0-6w9bg50pwsgc1(1).jpg.74f9e475b4516ec419a06215078e486f.jpg

“In 1974, Michael Corby was living in London and putting together The Babys – the band that would bring John Waite to the world's attention – when he happened to cross paths with Led Zeppelin. Little did he know he’d end up selling his favourite guitar to the day’s biggest guitar hero. ”

that a “Number Three” clone existed for the 1977 tour only!

Oakland / United States / Alameda County Coliseum　July 23, 1977 (1st photo), July 24, 1977 (2nd photo)

https://content.invisioncic.com/r149629/monthly_2024_07/jimmy-page-with-his-1969-gibson-les-paul-number-3-v0-xrb2l2kowsgc1.webp.de633bf17b3b7bdbfd6c3479359adeee.webp

https://content.invisioncic.com/r149629/monthly_2024_07/5e55a82241b6b18cf59de17ec3ffcca8(1).jpg.4e5b0453cb3aca6bd9fa532530eaa29e.jpg

https://content.invisioncic.com/r149629/monthly_2024_07/maxresdefault.jpg.aa0f67ec86c279234d2ee6c4edadea0a.jpg

 

[zosoledzep4yy]

For the '75 tour, the '59 Les Paul that was acquired just before the 1973 MSG show as a sub guitar was promoted to NO.2, and the metallic purple Les Paul familiar from the movie was demoted to NO.3, so it was never seen on the '75 tour.

I thought that there was no other Les Paul used in the 1975 tour except “NO.1” and “NO.2”, but I found a photo of “Chicago 1975” on the right side of the stage, where Jimmy's guitar is waiting for him. I can see Les Pauls other than “no.1” and “no.2” in Jimmy's guitar standby on the right side of the stage.

Chicago1975

37 new items added to shared album

photos.app.goo.gl

I can't be sure because it is a distant shot, but I suspect this is either the NO.3 or the NO.3 clone that Jimmy purchased from Michael Corby in 1974.

 

[Wilko]

He has (had?) two red Les Pauls. One got the B-Bender. One has small headstock, etc.

I can't believe I never noticed the fretboard trimming! That fixes the conversion problem of the P90 rout being right up against the fretboard!

 

[zosoledzep4yy]

He has (had?) two red Les Pauls. One got the B-Bender. One has small headstock, etc.

I can't believe I never noticed the fretboard trimming! That fixes the conversion problem of the P90 rout being right up against the fretboard!

「Performing at Madison Square Garden, New York, 7 June 1977」

The binding at the neck joint identifies this as a ‘50s Les Paul.

 

[jb_abides]

 

[zosoledzep4yy]

He has (had?) two red Les Pauls. One got the B-Bender. One has small headstock, etc.

I can't believe I never noticed the fretboard trimming! That fixes the conversion problem of the P90 rout being right up against the fretboard!

As the neck binding is still difficult to discern, it is better to judge by the length of the fingerboard (zero finger plate) from the 22nd fret towards the bridge!

Longer fingerboard from the 22nd fret towards the bridge - 1969 number 3 Les Paul.
Short fingerboard from the 22nd fret towards the bridge - number 3 Les Paul clone made in 1952.

 

[zosoledzep4yy]

The easiest difference for me to spot is that the #3 has a thick "pancake" body with a glue seam and the 77 guitar doesn't, it's very thin.

I agree that is true. However...

The only photo of the Number 3 clone is of Jimmy playing the guitar in 1977, and even with the poor quality Seattle video stills, it is difficult to verify whether or not there are glued areas on the sides of the body. The number 3 clone is not even introduced in Jimmy's anthology, so currently the only way to verify this is with the final zero fret section.

The close-up shot of the final zero-fret section can be verified because the hand part during the guitar solo was taken in close-up as a video in both 1973 and 1977.

Professional photographers such as Neil Preston (as are we all...) are meant to photograph people, and never take partial close-up shots like this.

 

[Wilko]

I wouldn’t call the second red one a clone. It is another red Les Paul, but has vintage features as discussed here. Shortened fretboard, humbuckers, narrow cutaway binding, small headstock. No b-bender.