2017/2018 era Gibson les paul custom RI 1959

[hopkinwfg]

Well, as I said plastics did change. I think I mentioned the dish carve claims. Rolled binding, I forget when that happened.

So, he's correct, although I think overly focused on the changes [or lack thereof] being the root of the matter.

The issue regarding the 'True Historic' marketing push wasn't really the incremental changes associated with them, Gibson has been marketing "new and improved" type change in marketing tripe along with those incremental model changes, halt-stepping toward accuracy.... To me, that's understanding specification alterations, and marketing akin to that done across many, many product spaces.

The first kicker, and I think I alluded to what sparked TL's vocal stance, was purported differentiation from Reissues that had come before, especially the 2013- changes. So, it was a perception of being disingenuous and "lowering" the value of the Reissues that had been produced prior. 'Hey, don't SH*T on existing Reissue guitars... we've been the ones supporting you, buying your products over and over, in fact the folks giving you the information to make them better... and now you are going to F-Us over with this marketing...?!' was a prevalent sentiment.

That said -- I think what's really overlooked, and I'll stress again although I've mentioned it -- is the nomenclature changed to make way for the most consequential 'unforced error' which was the stratification of the Custom Shop/Historic Les Paul Standard product line with not just the 'True Historic' but 'Historic Select' and in particular the 'Custom Select' models and associated branding hullaballoo.

'True Historic' was just what the marketing folks picked. Debating how more 'Truer' the 'True Historic' guitars with incremental specification changes over prior years being less relevant to actual motivation than introduction of Custom Select (CS, or C-Sel) models with Reissue 'dressing' but 'structural' differences e.g. the short tenon in tandem with a price increase was seen as a bum move. With C-Sel, Gibson had to create another designation, because they were introducing an inferior model [from a historic reissue accuracy perspective, it's still a fine guitar if you aren't hung up on the tenon]. Not sure if there were wood-sort, top-choice shenanigans too, or just the tenon. Of course, Historic Select and Hand Select became more layer beyond the TH branding.

Too much noise, not enough signal. And price differentiation (increase) without perceived value for cost difference.

So thats why the management at gibson decided to lay off Edwin wilson ? But what happened to Rick Gembar ?

Anyway do you guys own or played the 2017 era R9 with the TH appointments vs a regular R9? Does it sound better ?

I didnt a google search and reading some guys stating able to hear the difference on the hide glue and probably the unsheathed truss rod.... or it probably just rule as what as discussed being a marketing hype rather than specific tone contribution....

How true and big of a difference is that? Or still a widely debated topic... do the guys here do agree choosing the latest 2020 till now Murphy lab R9 vs 2017 era R9 with the TH specs for a more well recieved tone improvement? Clearer, more open etc...

 

[Happy Tree]

Well I'm biased as I have bought 5 VOS models in the last 5 years. I guess I bought into the idea that VOS was the ultimate reissue. Not for the patina but the overall specs, pups, wiring, glue, neck shapes, all included. Every one has been flawless, so this VOS differentiation signifies the best quality to me.

I see Murphy Lab as being the same quality just with an upcharge for relicing. So to me that is an unimportant detail and not worth the additional cost. I am quite capable of making my own dings and am comfortable handling a new instrument. To be honest, once I put it on and start playing what it looks like goes completely out of my mind so a reliced guitar wouldn't feel any more comfortable to me.

Anyway tl;dr: Murphy and VOS seem to be the same to me and therefore make the same sounds.

 

[hopkinwfg]

Well I'm biased as I have bought 5 VOS models in the last 5 years. I guess I bought into the idea that VOS was the ultimate reissue. Not for the patina but the overall specs, pups, wiring, glue, neck shapes, all included. Every one has been flawless, so this VOS differentiation signifies the best quality to me.

I see Murphy Lab as being the same quality just with an upcharge for relicing. So to me that is an unimportant detail and not worth the additional cost. I am quite capable of making my own dings and am comfortable handling a new instrument. To be honest, once I put it on and start playing what it looks like goes completely out of my mind so a reliced guitar wouldn't feel any more comfortable to me.

Anyway tl;dr: Murphy and VOS seem to be the same to me and therefore make the same sounds.

I think the Murphy lab has a different formula which it makes it harder without or lesser plasticizer when dries.... thus making the tone more pronounced...?

Yet is it a marketing strategy or its a true tone factor.... i probably think the Murphy lab with its own formula pose a firm tone plus factor than the true historic spec?

Just like Jackson guitars there is also a debate on polyurethane finishes vs polyester finishing....

Whatever it is.... besides being a guitar player or professional musician if oneself were to dive deeper it literally beomes nerds like us here looking into aspects in tone , appearance or both....

 

[jb_abides]

So thats why the management at gibson decided to lay off Edwin wilson ? But what happened to Rick Gembar ?

Anyway do you guys own or played the 2017 era R9 with the TH appointments vs a regular R9? Does it sound better ?

I didnt a google search and reading some guys stating able to hear the difference on the hide glue and probably the unsheathed truss rod.... or it probably just rule as what as discussed being a marketing hype rather than specific tone contribution....

How true and big of a difference is that? Or still a widely debated topic... do the guys here do agree choosing the latest 2020 till now Murphy lab R9 vs 2017 era R9 with the TH specs for a more well recieved tone improvement? Clearer, more open etc...

There is no stated reason the executive departures. Recall HJ was making many changes during the end of his ownership reign, in the face of all the financial problems that led to the eventual bankruptcy and his ouster. Search on LPF, as it has been heavily discussed and speculated upon.

I don't know what you mean: True Historic versus "regular"... it's model year dependent.

Per the discussion above, TRCondom removal and hide glue neck joint came prior to True Historic, so the argument over tone wasn't related to TH or not TH, period. It's all the aesthetics.

And pickups. CustomBuckers went from potted to unspotted, I believe 2018, so that could have more of a tonal impact than anything discussed related to TH versus subsequent Reissues.

Some customers feel Murphy Lab provides some sort of resonant effect, but Tom Murphy is very careful to qualify and caveat his remarks in this area, and there is zero evidence or ability to quantify these claims. So it falls into aspirational marketing schtick and the perceptions of ML owners.

There are no substantial tonal differences in any post-2013 solely attributable to the year, construction or aesthetics, TH/VOS, ML, etc.

It is down to the pickups and the particular tonal attributes of the wood, which vary guitar to guitar, not by recent model spec.

 

[renderit]

I have 2013's up through 2017's.

Each is different, each is unique.

Carves all over the map.

Necks on the 2013-2015 models had more of a difference than they do now meaning base ball fat on my R4 thru more refined through the R9 and the thin (front to back) on the R0 and this was much more pronounced on the 13-14 models.

Not saying this is good or bad, just a difference.

None have the truss rod sheath.

 

[corpse]

My '14 R9 whadeva is bonerific!!

 

[CS Murphy 'R9]

I think the Murphy lab has a different formula which it makes it harder without or lesser plasticizer when dries....

Correct plus rolled fingerboards making the guitar have a played in feel. There are a couple of other things that separate the ML from the VOS for me but they are
only subjective. I traded my 2016 Vos R9 plus some cash for my ML and do not regret it one bit.

 

[MarcB]

If the True historic range was supposed to be as close to an original 58/59 as possible. Why did they use a ‘tru bone’ nut instead of nylon?

 

[jb_abides]

If the True historic range was supposed to be as close to an original 58/59 as possible. Why did they use a ‘tru bone’ nut instead of nylon?

What are you looking at?

2016 TH LP specs were indeed nylon.

 

[MarcB]

What are you looking at?

2016 TH LP specs were indeed nylon.

2015 .. the case candy has a ‘nu-bone’ card

 

[jb_abides]

Seems like that could well be from a modification done after purchase where the candy was added.

Or perhaps a special spec from a particular dealer.

Never saw NUBONE on a TH spec, mentioned in LPF, etc. in connection with TH-era, etc.

 

[MarcB]

Seems like that could well be from a modification done after purchase where the candy was added.

Or perhaps a special spec from a particular dealer.

Never saw NUBONE on a TH spec, mentioned in LPF, etc. in connection with TH-era, etc.

Hmm interesting.. will bear that in mind..

Thanks for the reply

 

[CS Murphy 'R9]

Hmm interesting.. will bear that in mind..

Thanks for the reply

I second jb_abides. i have never seen or heard anything about NUBONE with the TH series or any R series.

 

[MarcB]

 

[MarcB]

@jb_abides @These go to 11 Of all the TH’s I’ve been watching.. this one has sat for over a year.. with minimal interest (watchers on eBay) and only three pics on the listing..
he did send me a few pics via messenger.. but they were all in a room with very yellow light and taken with a potato.. and my spide’y sense was saying “nope” (as the top wasn’t what I wanted)

This listing keeps coming and going too..
and as of this point is now not listed.

 

[jb_abides]

@jb_abides @These go to 11 Of all the TH’s I’ve been watching.. this one has sat for over a year.. with minimal interest (watchers on eBay) and only three pics on the listing..
he did send me a few pics via messenger.. but they were all in a room with very yellow light and taken with a potato.. and my spide’y sense was saying “nope” (as the top wasn’t what I wanted)

This listing keeps coming and going too..
and as of this point is now not listed.

I have being a watcher on the wall for main things that have piqued my interest but not quite right, seen them come and go, reappear, etc.

I only have a couple of regrets of not pulling the trigger, thinking I alone liked the thing but no one else would, and hestitated .

Many more, with a feeling of ambivalence, they are better off with someone else. When you know, you know. There will be others.

 

[MarcB]

I have being a watcher on the wall for main things that have piqued my interest but not quite right, seen them come and go, reappear, etc.

I only have a couple of regrets of not pulling the trigger, thinking I alone liked the thing but no one else would, and hestitated .

Many more, with a feeling of ambivalence, they are better off with someone else. When you know, you know. There will be others.

This is very true.. if the guitar in question was to be the one.. it would already be in the collection..

I too only have one regret in not buying a guitar.. it was a 57 gold top (RI) in Boston GC with the serial number 6 0606 and it was going cheap as it was at the time Gibson was potentially going under (before new current owners took over)

 

[jb_abides]

This is very true.. if the guitar in question was to be the one.. it would already be in the collection..

I too only have one regret in not buying a guitar.. it was a 57 gold top (RI) in Boston GC with the serial number 6 0606 and it was going cheap as it was at the time Gibson was potentially going under (before new current owners took over)

Had a similar occurrence with a Silverburst LP Custom with a CS serial ending '666' That time it was with the Gibson Demo Shop, where the experience was still uncertain to me.