How to ground a guitar without the ground wire leading from the tailpiece??

[fast ricky love]

I just picked up a naked Heritage 80 Les Paul (no parts/electronics).

These guitars don't have the small wire that enters the control cavity from the tailpiece that attaches to the neck volume pot (as it does on Historics).

Is that going to be a problem? If so, how do I ground the guitar?

Thanks!!

 

[RickN]

I just picked up a naked Heritage 80 Les Paul (no parts/electronics).

These guitars don't have the small wire that enters the control cavity from the tailpiece that attaches to the neck volume pot (as it does on Historics).

Is that going to be a problem? If so, how do I ground the guitar?

Thanks!!

I solved this problem with both my '79 Standard and my '83 30th Ann. Goldtop.

The cleanest way is to make a conventional string ground. Pull the high-E tail piece bushing out of the body, and drill a hole between the bushing hole and the control cavity - 3/32" or 1/8" is plenty. Then insert a piece of soft copper wire through the hole into the control cavity, and put the bushing back in again. Solder the other end of the wire to a pot casing. Done. That's how I did my guitars.

The other alternative is to do it like the older Bigsby guitars did it - drill a hole from the back of the bridge pickup route into the hole for the high-E side bridge post hole. Take the bridge post anchor first, of course. You should have a Nashville bridge on that guitar, right? Then the same thing - insert a wire through that hole you drilled, and put the bridge post anchor back in. Check the continuity to make sure you have contact between the anchor and the wire. Then, wrap the other end of the copper wire around the braid shield of the bridge pickup and solder. If you plan to change pickup often, you can use a very LONG piece of copper wire and just run it through the wire channel into the control cavity and solder it to the back of a pot.

 

[fast ricky love]

The other alternative is to do it like the older Bigsby guitars did it - drill a hole from the back of the bridge pickup route into the hole for the high-E side bridge post hole. Take the bridge post anchor first, of course. You should have a Nashville bridge on that guitar, right? Then the same thing - insert a wire through that hole you drilled, and put the bridge post anchor back in. Check the continuity to make sure you have contact between the anchor and the wire. Then, wrap the other end of the copper wire around the braid shield of the bridge pickup and solder. If you plan to change pickup often, you can use a very LONG piece of copper wire and just run it through the wire channel into the control cavity and solder it to the back of a pot.

This is going to be an easier way to go as I can see drilling this hole. Still, with the chuck as thick as it is on a drill, seems like it'd be a bit of a challenge... No? :hmm

For kicks I broke out my other Heritage 80 and had a look at what was going on there. It has a metal sleeve inside of the toggle switch cavity. There is a ground wire that attaches to that sleeve, then to the toggle switch and then runs thru the wire channel and finally attaches to the post on the ground plate in the control cavity. I don't have that sleeve, but I do have the ground plate for the control cavity that I've installed already.

Does this open up another possibility? Even if I don't have the sleeve? (Also, the back plate for the toggle switch cavity has a metal shield on the back of it which makes contact with the sleeve).

Thanks Rick! :salude

 

[RickN]

Regardless of which way you choose to go on the drilling, you'll need to beg or borrow a LOONNNGG drill bit so as to keep the drill chuck WELL away from the guitar body. Make sure it's a good, sharp bit, too - you're drilling through maple, which is different than drilling through mahogany. Really, though, once you get past the pulling of the tail piece bushing, the hole from there into the control cavity is a less-intimidating drilling exercise. Whatever works best for you, though.

The sleeve in the toggle switch cavity is just an attempt at shielding - it doesn't do anything with regards to the string ground. Not having it isn't a liability.

Even with the ground plate, I'd still install a string ground. If going through the back of the bridge pickup route into the bridge post anchor hole is the most comfortable for you, then go for it (remember, LOONNNGG drill bit). The thing to remember if you're using the ground plate is to avoid a possible ground loop - don't run a ground wire around the backs of the pot casings in addition to the ground plate - it's one or the other. Ground plate and no ground wire, or a ground wire and no plate.

 

[fast ricky love]

Great info, THANKS again Rick!

 

[J.D.]

I use a small Milwaukee 90-degree cordless screwdriver adapter and the small drill bits with the built in hex end fitting (no chauk).

 

[fast ricky love]

Great advice guys, I'll look into getting some of these tools when the stores are open tomorrow.

Now, since my other H-80 doesn't have any string ground, is it really necessary? What happens without it? (The H-80 seems to play and sound fine to me...)

 

[fast ricky love]

Nevermind, I just got it figured out... I'll outline what I did when I'm done, but it was stupid easy! :salude

 

[fast ricky love]

OK, here's what I did. Basically I did the ground wire to the tailpiece anchor. I've never pulled an anchor and that concerned me but it was so damn easy I'm embarrassed I didn't think of htis sooner.

Remove tailpiece. Unscrew stud just a bit to get some leverage when you stick the hammer claw under it. To prevent damaging the face of the guitar use a medium to thin thickness PAPERBACK NOVEL! I've heard using blocks of wood etc, but this is easier and better. The damn anchor yanked out NO PROBLEM. Not hard at all.

Then, the concept of drilling into the anchor hole from the control cavity concerned me. So I took the easy way out - hammer a nail (not too thick) from the control cavity to the anchor hole (mahogany is pretty soft so it ain't hard and you're hammering into the middle of that slab of wood so I can't see it cracking.

Anyway, once you're through, use the 'ol paperback to use as leverage when you remove the nail.

The perfect job (crime).

 

[RickN]

The perfect job (crime).

That's my kinda twiddler!!!!! Make it work with what you have at hand. A little simple careful control of hand-tools is all MOST people need. The tail piece bushing method really is the simplest. I congratulate you on going for it and not wussing-out. :dude:

 

[fast ricky love]

Rick, I must commend you in giving me the courage! Seriously, I look forward to your replies as I know you know what you're talking about - CHEERS! :salude And happy 4th that it's turned out fine so far on my end!!

 

[RickN]

Here's a little something to scare people with:

 

[fast ricky love]

That's THE METHOD!!'

 

[cherrick]

That's THE METHOD!!...

Oh man. I crapped my pants when I saw that picture.

Someone wrote up a piece on pulling the bushing that involved rubber washers, a metal washer, and turning a bolt in the bushing. That sounds so much more ... gentle.

None of that "hammer, meet lester. Lester, meet hammer. (Insert John Dean Scream).

 

[RickN]

Oh man. I crapped my pants when I saw that picture...

It worked!!!!!!

That's why I posted it. It cracks me up sometimes how some grown men seem to have a somewhat 'delicate constitution'. :spabout I guess guys don't take shop class in school as much as we did when I was in school.

That claw hammer method has been in use for freakin' decades. It works just peachy. If anyone has trouble controlling the movement of simple hand tools, and and hasn't got the good sense to take some very basic precautions, then they shouldn't attempt that job regardless of which kluge they invent to do the job. :hee

For the 'hand-tool-challenged', many junior high schools offer remedial shop classes in the evenings at very reasonable fees. Google 'hand tool basics'. :laugh2:

Just kidding....








a little. :spabout

 

[SmallBlock]

Regardless of which way you choose to go on the drilling, you'll need to beg or borrow a LOONNNGG drill bit so as to keep the drill chuck WELL away from the guitar body.

Seems as if I'm late to the party. I'll post what I did for others in the future...

You don't need a long drill bit and you don't need any power tools. Like you said mahogany is soft. After you remove the bushing drill a small hole from the control cavity to the bushing hole. But don't use a drill. You can use a standard length drill bit and spin it using only your fingers. You'll be through to the bushing hole in only a couple of minutes. No power tools need and you don't have to swing a hammer near the back of your guitar.

 

[RickN]

This picture shows what can happen when people ignore the step of using an Xacto knife to clean away the finish which often overlaps the bushing - pulling the bushing lifts the overlapping finish around the hole... a couple of minutes with an Xacto blade would have prevented that... :ganz :salude

The only possible problem with this approach is that it can be hit-or-miss (no pun intended) whether the hole penetrates the bushing hole high enough for the bushing to actually make contact with the wire once it's inserted in the hole and the bushing is replaced. In this person's example, he came close to having the hole too low... I stand by my recommendation - drill high enough through the maple portion of the hole and you'll never miss.

 

[cherrick]

It worked!!!!!!

That's why I posted it. It cracks me up sometimes how some grown men seem to have a somewhat 'delicate constitution'. :spabout I guess guys don't take shop class in school as much as we did when I was in school.

That claw hammer method has been in use for freakin' decades. It works just peachy. If anyone has trouble controlling the movement of simple hand tools, and and hasn't got the good sense to take some very basic precautions, then they shouldn't attempt that job regardless of which kluge they invent to do the job. :hee

For the 'hand-tool-challenged', many junior high schools offer remedial shop classes in the evenings at very reasonable fees. Google 'hand tool basics'. :laugh2:

Just kidding....

Geez Rick, you hurt my feelings and made me cry :-(

The last time I was in shop class, a guy a couple of benches down from me was making a screwdriver and before he put on the handle, he shoved it into a 220 plug outlet. The shop instructor had to perform a flying full nelson to pull the guy from horizontal.

I believe it may have scarred me for life!

 

[RickN]

Geez Rick, you hurt my feelings and made me cry :-(

The last time I was in shop class, a guy a couple of benches down from me was making a screwdriver and before he put on the handle, he shoved it into a 220 plug outlet. The shop instructor had to perform a flying full nelson to pull the guy from horizontal.

I believe it may have scarred me for life!

Sorry - I didn't mean this for you directly... :salude You just happened to be the person who responded to the picture. There are PLENTY of people who see a picture like that and wince in private.

The text of my post was mainly aimed at some (not necessarily you, if it doesn't apply to you) who bad-mouth tried-and-true methods because, in my not-so-humble-opinion :hee they don't trust their ability to safely use basic hand tools. For those who fall into that category, I will always say: "If that scares you, don't do it." But for those who can manage it, don't tell us we're crazy.

Again: "If the shoe fits, wear it."

ROCK ON. :wail :salude