Original Gibson PAF Pickups - Zebra Reverse

[neuroy]

These are offered in a private sale. However, the year 1959 is not mentioned in the ad.
They measure 8,36 and 7,32 K according to the seller.
$ 6500.-
What do you think about those ? Smells fishy....

 

[JazzMuzak]

For many years I had heard that "reverse zebra" PAFs either didn't exist or were so extraordinarily rare you'd basically never actually see one. Now it seems like they pop up for sale semi-regularly. Real or not, they make me skittish.

 

[GreenBurst]

I assume you can view them in person. Check for the smell.

 

[darkwave]

Aren't those standard Zebra? I was of the understanding that standard zebra had the screw coil in cream (and that matches what I see with Duncan pickups).

- Douglas C.

 

[GreenBurst]

Zebra pickups originated with Gibson's shortage of black bobbins in 1959/60. When they needed to use Cream and Black they decided to use the Black bobbin for the screw coil as it would be less detectable through the screw hole gaps.

Later, others (ie Duncan) opted to make Zebra pickups with the screw coil cream instead. These eventually became more common due to sales volumes.

Hence the ongoing confusion with Zebra vs. Reverse Zebra bobbin configuration.

Correct definition is Zebra = black screw bobbin and Reverse Zebra = cream screw bobbin.

Gibson still uses this configuration today.

When buying Zebra pickups from other Mfgers always ask the screw coil bobbin color before purchasing if that matters to you.

 

[brandtkronholm]

These are offered in a private sale. However, the year 1959 is not mentioned in the ad.
They measure 8,36 and 7,32 K according to the seller.
$ 6500.-
What do you think about those ? Smells fishy....

If those are legit, then $6500 is a fair, if not very good price for the pair. Reverse zebras are more than a little unusual.
Those bobbins look well used, almost damaged. I’m surprised the tape has survived given the wear and tear of the bobbins.
8.36 makes sense, 7.32 is a little low for the era, but not entirely out of the question - but it it may indicate that something is wrong with that particular pickup.

That 1959 isn’t mentioned is fine, zebra PAFs show up well into 1960.

I don’t see any immediate red flags in those photos other than the condition.
If you have an approval period, say, at least 72 hours, then that should be enough time to take them to an expert.

Could be worth taking a chance. Keep us up to date!

 

[poor man's burst]

The legs angle radius as shown in 4th pic looks wrong to me (too round, not square enough).
Why would someone use sand paper on the bobin (see 3rd pic)?

 

[neuroy]

Yes, I think the heavy scratches are hard to explain.
Regarding the 3rd pic I have the impression of different wire color on slug and screw side.

Unfortunately I cannot see them in person - they are too far from me.

 

[brandtkronholm]

Yes, I think the heavy scratched are hard to explain.
Regarding the 3rd pic I have the impression of different wire color on slug and screw side.

Unfortunately I cannot see them in person - they are too far from me.

Good call on the different color wire - I do see it now.

I also see the “round” angle at the foot of the pickup. That is also a little unusual. That’s another good call.

If it’s too good to be true, it probably is. Pass!

 

[jimmi]

These could have been messed with or maybe it is lighting but I don’t like the feet and the impression from the tooling doesn’t look right to me. I saw a pair…also Zebras, last year that had similar issues that were fairly iffy. A couple pictures of a legit PAF to compare.

T

 

[Jumping@Shadows]

These are bogus- I’d say ‘70s/‘80s Duncan coils with non vintage baseplates/decals.
Exotic, cheap and real only very rarely come in a trio!

 

[darkwave]

Zebra pickups originated with Gibson's shortage of black bobbins in 1959/60. When they needed to use Cream and Black they decided to use the Black bobbin for the screw coil as it would be less detectable through the screw hole gaps.

Later, others (ie Duncan) opted to make Zebra pickups with the screw coil cream instead. These eventually became more common due to sales volumes.

Hence the ongoing confusion with Zebra vs. Reverse Zebra bobbin configuration.

Correct definition is Zebra = black screw bobbin and Reverse Zebra = cream screw bobbin.

Gibson still uses this configuration today.

When buying Zebra pickups from other Mfgers always ask the screw coil bobbin color before purchasing if that matters to you.

Thanks - I knew the reason, but always remembered that it seemed wrong to me to to have the screw coil be cream since it could be visible! The Duncan reference was included in case it was the very discrepancy you pointed out.

I have a whopping 1 pickup that is zebra, and it is covered!

-Douglas C.

 

[poor man's burst]

I've seen many Gibson pickups (P-90s or Humbuckers) with rusted scews, due to contact with sweat. But screws rusted underneath the pickups seems more unlikely (although not impossible), unless artificially aged/reliced.

 

[jimmi]

These are bogus- I’d say ‘70s/‘80s Duncan coils with non vintage baseplates/decals.
Exotic, cheap and real only very rarely come in a trio!

I stopped at the plates. Too big of a red flag to go further

 

[Jumping@Shadows]

A consistent tell with even excellent replica baseplates (which the OP examples do not have..), is that the pole screws have zero gap where it meets the plate, as can be seen on @jimmi’s example- you can see some shadow on the OP ones, as the holes are slightly larger.

 

[jimmi]

A consistent tell with even excellent replica baseplates (which the OP examples do not have..), is that the pole screws have zero gap where it meets the plate, as can be seen on @jimmi’s example- you can see some shadow on the OP ones, as the holes are slightly larger.

There is more than that. Hard to know how much to inform the good guys and not teach the criminals how to get better at making forgeries. The tailpieces have gotten so good I won’t look at one without a ton of patina.

 

[neuroy]

Thank you all ! So not worth taking a trip....
I have just noticed the bobbin screws seem to be steel, not brass.

 

[neuroy]

The ad is gone !
Maybe they were reading along here and noticed that they were caught. Hopefully no one bought the pickups.......

 

[Subliminal lanimilbuS]

I am not seeing any valid listed red flags here. Proper bobbins. Definitely not Seymour. Proper screws, slugs, base plates and tooling. Proper PAF stickers. Proper bobbin tape texture and placement. Some black light pictures would be nice, but I think there is a little stretching happening here trying to detective some fault with these. I have seen worse scratched up pickups found in old store drawers. Apart from raiding another guitar that is usually how they are found. Shadows around screws? I posted a picture of known PAF below.

Reverse Zebra PAF's have been found in a few unopened pickups between 60 and 64. The examples noted usually being of gold appointments. I am sure we would find more if every 60 to 64 guitar was checked. About the only thing of interest is the bobbin wire. In the one picture of the white bobbin it does not look to be plain enamel. Camera flash? Put together at transition? Rewound bobbin?

 

[jimmi]

I am not seeing any valid listed red flags here. Proper bobbins. Definitely not Seymour. Proper screws, slugs, base plates and tooling. Proper PAF stickers. Proper bobbin tape texture and placement. Some black light pictures would be nice, but I think there is a little stretching happening here trying to detective some fault with these. I have seen worse scratched up pickups found in old store drawers. Apart from raiding another guitar that is usually how they are found. Shadows around screws? I posted a picture of known PAF below.

Reverse Zebra PAF's have been found in a few unopened pickups between 60 and 64. The examples noted usually being of gold appointments. I am sure we would find more if every 60 to 64 guitar was checked. About the only thing of interest is the bobbin wire. In the one picture of the white bobbin it does not look to be plain enamel. Camera flash? Put together at transition? Rewound bobbin?

View attachment 28985

The feet are not correct on the OP pickup plates. Just compare with the picture I posted. You can buy them if you want