Plain Top v.s. Figured

[Last LP]

Which sound better?

I understand a lot of this has to do to personal preference but I've read somewhere that plain tops tend to have a better resonance/sustain & have a definable better quality.

Something to do with the tightness of the grain on the plain Maple Top. Whereas the Figured Maple Tops are not as dense by nature & tend to "swallow~up" a lot of the tone.

Some would even argue that Eastern Maple carries a noticeable difference when compared to Western Maple.

Just how much of this is true? If any?

What's everyone else say, through your personal experiences if you've played both types?

Thanks!:hank

 

[plaintop60]

I can't see how one can reliably attribute the tone a guitar to one specific attribute that it has, but IMO there are some general tendencies that can be considered. For example harder maple tends to have properties that enhance or diminish certain frequencies. All wood with respect to guitar building acts as a sort physical comb filter enhancing some freqs and diminishing others. There is a theory amongst luthiers that the figuring in violin backs are important in tone production in a given instrument. I have always believed that this theory applies to guitar construction too. A guitar made of several blocks of wood machined and glued tightly together will have some built-in prestresses, however small. It seems these prestresses would likely have an effect on tone. Eastern maple comes in different varieties, but sugar maple is extremely hard and Western bigleaf is pretty soft and porous by comparison, and there certainly is a difference in tonal properties and appearance. The softer wood filters out more of the frequencies and yields a more diffuse sound with a softer attack, a less trebly sound with a bouncier less defined low midrange/low end. Rock maple tops yield a big immediate sound with a sweet midrange. plenty of high end, bell-like clarity and a tight deep well defined bottom. Of course all of these characteristics are mixed up with the wood of the neck and body so they all present to more or lesser extent.

 

[Last LP]

Thanks plaintop60 for a very concise well thought out & extremely informative response.

I really learned a great deal from what you just wrote.

Much appreciated!

 

[Dino_k]

To add to what plaintop60 wrote: Western Maple, which is indeed softer than Eastern Sugar Maple ( but comparable to other eastern varieties of Maple) is reknowned for its intense figuring. Quilted figuring, as an example, is only found in Western Maple, not in Sugar Maple. And softer maples will in general have a different, some would describe as less intense, resonant character.

However, figuring does exist in Sugar Maple and is quite lovely, although generally less intense than alot of specimens of Western. But Sugar Maple, figured or not, is very hard and will generally exhibit a bell-like resonant character. Western, figured or not, will generally exhibit a softer resonant character. Keep in mind that there are other varieties of maple, most of which will be softer than Sugar Maple.

 

[The Real MC]

I have a plaintop G0 that sounds fabulous. I'm of the opinion that the figure of the wood is not a dominant factor of tone, it's the resonance of the wood. Figured wood is a bonus not a prerequisite. I have found plenty of nice figured LPs with inadequate tone.

Sunburst LPs with both excellent tone and excellent figuring are few and far between.

 

[Trans-Am]

The two cannot be compared!!! You gotta have both, period!.

Cheers!!

 

[kink56]

The two cannot be compared!!! You gotta have both, period!.

Cheers!!

:applaude :applaude :applaude

 

[burst59]

The two cannot be compared!!! You gotta have both, period!.

Cheers!!

That's Right.

 

[Red Baron]

The two cannot be compared!!! You gotta have both, period!.

Cheers!!

Unless you can find a bit of both in one guitar...

 

[Last LP]

Absolutely LOVE that TOP Red Baron!

Now that's got a lot of character right there. :dude:

 

[Phlame]

You want to make sure the wood is quartersawn more than anything. Quartered back, neck, fretboard and top. Soundwaves and vibrations will travel and threfore resonate better through quartered wood than wood that is flatsawn. Quartered wood is also much more stable, especially on the neck and fingerboard.

 

[prakashananda]

You want to make sure the wood is quartersawn more than anything. Quartered back, neck, fretboard and top. Soundwaves and vibrations will travel and threfore resonate better through quartered wood than wood that is flatsawn. Quartered wood is also much more stable, especially on the neck and fingerboard.

I'm sure there's lot's of info around here...:wah

But - if possible can you give a concise layman's description of how to determine what's what?

 

[plaintop60]

I'm sure there's lot's of info around here...:wah

But - if possible can you give a concise layman's description of how to determine what's what?

When wood is quartersawn, the grain run at approx 180 degrees to the face and roughly parallel to the sides. A quartersawn neck blank is of paramount importance in mahogany necks and paradoxically the converse is true in one piece maple necks. For reasons I don't fully understand despite having studied the subject for 40 years, one piece maple neck blanks must be perfectly flatsawn. Riftsawn(45 degree angle grain) neck wood of either maple or mahogany although unfortunately quite common is a recipe for a very mediocre guitar. Riftsawn neck blanks are completely unacceptable except for entry level quality guitars. I agree that quartersawn hard maple tops on Les Pauls tend to sound more lively and immediate than flat or rift sawn tops, but for SG bodies and back of Les Pauls I think there's less of a correlation between flat or quartersawn wood and good tone. I prefer quartersawn backs, but I've seen many guitars with flatsawn mahogany backs that sounded phenominal. On hollow body guitars and especially acoustics quartersawn wood all the way around is required. The easiest way to determine quartesawn wood is to look at the end grain. It should be as close to perpendicular to the face as possible. Do to today's dwindling supply of tonewood, frequently logs that are too small to be harvested for guitar wood are used. It's easy to spot these because the grain will be curved when looking at the end grain. Larger logs have such a large radius that the curvature of the grain is almost imperceptable. On Les Paul tops you cant view the end grain except for the tiny crescent, so you have to look at the face to see the grain lines. The annular rings are what you are looking for. Most tops are quartersawn in the middle with increasing rift towards the outer ends of the bouts. The grain of small logs even splays out into flatsawn at the outer ends of the lower bouts. Flatsawn maple has a cloud-like grain pattern. Also many quartersawn pieces have alot of medulliary rays. Medulliary rays, often called silk, or silking are the tiny lines that connect between the annular rings. Medulliary rays are most pronounced and easiest to see in spruce, however both quartesawn Mahogany and quartesawn maple exhibit medulliary rays and it only appears on the perfect quarter, or at exactly 1880 degrees from the grain.

 

[prakashananda]

When wood is quartersawn, the grain run at approx 180 degrees to the face and roughly parallel to the sides...

I finally got a chance to read this. Thanks so much for posting! :salude :salude :salude

I think I get the part about the top but am not so clear on the back and neck. If anyone wants to post any pics or drawings as examples that might be cool. Maybe it's just me but I could use a visual aid. I will also search forth...

 

[P.Walker]

prakashananda, the last pages of the "The Beauty of the Burst" should explain it as well..

 

[RamiLP]

Unless you can find a bit of both in one guitar...

or you can have it 1/2 plain and 1/2 flame..... that actually rimes

 

[C-4]

While there is a lot of great information here, keep in mind that while you are looking at various guitars for all of these features, the bottom line will be how it sounds to you while you are trying it out.
It is possible to put all the right cuts of wood into a given guitar but there is no guarantee that it will sound superior to some other guitar of the same type that was put toghter with randomly chosen parts, although, I would like to think it might be possible to guarantee such a thing.

 

[plaintop60]

Prakashananda, lay your guitar down and look at the lower bouts from the bottom end by the strap button. If the finish is dark grab a flashlight and look at the grain at the end. The dark grain lines will either be perpendicular to the face of the guitar(fornt or back surface) or they will be soewhat parallel. As I've said before flat sawn backs can sound phenominal so dont hang your hat on this grain orientation thing. Another way to tell on the back is when it's quartersawn the grain will appear very straight with alternating light areas and dark grain lines. If the back is quartersawn it will appear more random and the little dark pores with filler in them will make swirly patterns. As C-4 said, the most important thing is how the guitar sounds. All of these factors put together, figuring, lack of figuring, internal stresses, rigidity, density, weight, resonance are additive and subtractive in ways that make the sum much greater than the whole and the bottom line is that a good guitar is just good and you know it when you play it. Nothing else counts...or I should say, everything else is secondary.

 

[sidekick]

When wood is quartersawn, the grain run at approx 180 degrees to the face and roughly parallel to the sides.... etc.,

Thanks for posting that info, plaintop60... :salude

A good summary...

 

[prakashananda]

While there is a lot of great information here, keep in mind that while you are looking at various guitars for all of these features, the bottom line will be how it sounds to you while you are trying it out.
It is possible to put all the right cuts of wood into a given guitar but there is no guarantee that it will sound superior to some other guitar of the same type that was put toghter with randomly chosen parts, although, I would like to think it might be possible to guarantee such a thing.

D'accord.