Take A Look Inside The Marshall JCM 2000 TSL

[Tim C.]

Here is a shot of the inside of a new Marshall JCM 2000 triple super lead amp. Note there are 7 separate circuit boards stacked in there. A nighmare to work on! The amp is full of IC's, etc. The circuit boards are pretty thin and there are numerous plug in cables that can come loose.

Tim C.

 

[hoss]

They are built like crap. It's what you get if you want a 100W tube amp with 3 channels at an affordable price

 

[Adwex]

Steve Morse (my favorite musician) periodically writes "notes from the road" on his website, sharing his thoughts, observations, and experiences while he's on tour....well written , and quite insightful, everyone should check it out. In one installment (couldn't find it to post here) he tells how for part of his tour with Deep Purple, they were using JCM2000's, (didn't specify DSL or TSL), and he said they didn't hold up to the rigors of travelling in trucks and such.

I'm considering a DSL, but it probably won't leave home very often.

 

[hoss]

Don't get me wrong in my post above. I really like the Marshall sound and the build quality up to the JCM800 series.
If you compare today's Marshalls to the other affordable tube amps like Laney, Peavey, Engl and even semi-boutique stuff like Brunetti you will find cheap PCB constructions with thin boards and connectors in all of them.

 

[KOTR]

What does "IC" stand for?

 

[hoss]

What does "IC" stand for?

Integrated Circuit (= computer chip), an accumulation of transistors. But Marshall only uses them for switching functions, not for signal processing.

 

[KOTR]

Thanks Hoss33 - I have read that Marshall used IC's in the JCM 900s. Do you know what their function was in the 900 line?

 

[hoss]

Thanks Hoss33 - I have read that Marshall used IC's in the JCM 900s. Do you know what their function was in the 900 line?

As far as I know Marshall only used ICs for switching function. I would need to look up the circuit diagrams, but you can do this here if you want: http://www.drtube.com/marshall.htm

What I definitely know, is that Marshall has in the past used silicone diodes (the same as in a solid state rectifier) for clipping on higher gain overdrive channels. They did this in the following models: JCM800 dual channel (2205/2210, not in the legendary 2203/2204 models), Silver Jubilee / Slash models, JCM900 HiGain Master Volume amps and 6100 30th Anniversary amps.

The JCM2000 series has a pure tube signal path.

 

[Tim C.]

Hoss,

You are exactly right. These will not hold up to the rigors of touring. Heck they don't even hold up sitting in your basement. This is a brand new one from teh dealer that has never been sold. They let a good customer take it home for the weekend to try and it broke in teh first two days! I really don't like these at all!! Crap in my opinion.

Tim C.

 

[hoss]

Tim, I know. I created the "world famous fix your DSL201/401 page" and I get many thank-you emails from users who have successfully repaired their crappy JCM2000 amps with the information from my site. http://www.piller.at/music/index.php?target=dsl201/index.html

 

[Progrocker111]

Hm, i would be interested if this amp could last for example at least 30 years of active using like old vintage amps. :hmm

 

[Classic]

Whilst it's not 100% perfect (for some reason there is volume ramping between the clean and gain channels) I've not had ANY trouble with my 1998 TSL100 since I've had it. It's been gigged and practised with for the last two years... May be I got a dud :rofl
________
MOTORCYCLE TIRES

 

[hoss]

Hm, i would be interested if this amp could last for example at least 30 years of active using like old vintage amps. :hmm

I don't think so. If you look at the overengineered parts in old amps with the fat, hand wired leads and massive transformers no mass production amp of today will stand up to the challenge.
Small shops with their expensive boutique gear YES!
Even a "mass produced" Mesa amp is beautifully built, it is in a higher price category though.

Here a pic of my Lonestar

 

[DE Native]

Here is what the inside of the new Gibson GA20 & 40 RVTs look like. The PCB is pretty thick. Fairly tidy too. A simple design.

 

[SimonBarSinister]

That's not an amp but a badly built computer....

Awful....

SBS

 

[Thin_Lizzy]

It's looks very strange to have flat cable inside a guitar amp. Flatcables belong inside computers, right? :biglaugh:

Having said that, I toured for over 5 years with a JCM600 (head) and it never let me down. I now use DSL50. We'll see how she handles it.

 

[Rumbling_Groover]

I had a TSL for a few years, gigged it quite a bit; no problems it was a great amp. I live just up the road from the Marshall factory and my Gran used to build them back in the day. My bet is they were just as unreliable if not more so back then when you consider the amount of returns / failures to the amount produced. One reason Hendrix used them on tour is because Jim Marshall offerd to send a tech out with him to keep the amps running in the demanding tour environment.

PCBs were introduced for a number of reasons one of wich was to improve consistancy in production over hand wiring. Your boutique built handwired amp is put together better than most vintage amps; but you also pay for it.

 

[SimonBarSinister]

My bet is they were just as unreliable if not more so back then when you consider the amount of returns / failures to the amount produced.

I would take that bet judging from my own first hand experience. I have owned/still own several HW metal panels and they have been tossed around many a truck/bus/car for the 20 + years I have owned them (not to include the 7 or so years someone owned them before me). They have seen hundreds of gigs and studio dates. I have never had an issue outside of general maintenance and tubes. I can speak to the same experience for many of my cohorts who use them as well. There is absolutely no comparision on the build quality of a DSL/TSL and a HW Metal Panel or Plexi..... Apples and Oranges....

YMMV
SBS

 

[Rumbling_Groover]

There is absolutely no comparision on the build quality of a DSL/TSL and a HW Metal Panel or Plexi..... Apples and Oranges....

I agree with you on the build quality, but that was not my point. My bet was that they had a higher percentage of returns back in the day compared to today. If you build 100 amps and 1 is returned DOA then you have a 1% failure rate , if you build 1000 amps and 1 is returned DOA then you have a 0.1% failure rate.

One of the reasons that there are separate PCBs in the TSL is so that they can be replaced as whole units rather than fault diagnose individual components; it is a bit like a modern car.

Modern Marshalls are very consistent unit to unit. That is more than can be said for the early ones. Back in the late '80s early '90s you couldn't give away JMPs. I worked in a music shop at the time and saw dozens, each one sounded slightly different due to to the ever changing components; they built them out of the components they could get hold of that met the spec.

Don't get me wrong I loved my old '71 superlead it was a great amp, but so was my TSL; which one is more versatile in a studio? All I can say is that I got some great tones out of such a crap amp.

 

[screamingdaisy]

Even a "mass produced" Mesa amp is beautifully built, it is in a higher price category though.

Here a pic of my Lonestar

IMG

Solid


(click to enlarge)