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Valuable information to consider when evaluating the authenticity of a vintage burst

rob livesey

Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2007
Messages
655
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :-)

Unless of course I can find a wizard woodworker..!

Where are you? I’m sure someone here can point you in that direction. I would defo sort the woodworking out first, that will be your foundation on which to build.

Rob
 

JJ Blair

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2011
Messages
3,463
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :-)

What a curious guitar. Headstock shape is weird. Wondering why there's no chew out. Top finish is cool, though.
 

Jumping@Shadows

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 11, 2003
Messages
1,347
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :-)

I’d personally advise you have that guitar checked out by someone knowledgeable before you invest in PAFs or other vintage parts.
 

sws1

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 4, 2001
Messages
2,882
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :-)

sws1, no as far as I can tell the headstock shows no sign of repair... And having broken a couple over the years I can usually recognise one..! :)

I asked because of the shape of the mustache and that the s/n looks restamped. Of course, pics can throw you off.
 

Vic DaPra

Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2014
Messages
173
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :-)

hmmmm...interesting
 
Last edited:

S. Weiger

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
2,079
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :-)

I asked because of the shape of the mustache and that the s/n looks restamped. Of course, pics can throw you off.
The 'Les Paul model' script doesn't look quite right IMO. Could be the pic as you stated..
 

Jumping@Shadows

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 11, 2003
Messages
1,347
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :-)

I’m cognisant of member’s discretion in commenting, but the headstock shape alone should discount this from being a legitimate late ‘50s Gibson, and the control cavity is also incorrect. Guitars like this seem to surface in the UK every few months, with notably similar traits (I’ve seen three this month alone), and I doubt this is any different.
 
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
134
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :-)

I just went to Burst Serial to look at the 0 24XX range (and see if I could match one up) and I noticed the gap in serial numbers between 0 22XX and the 0 7XXX is there an explanation for that or is it just more coincidence that those have not been reported?

Frank
 

JJ Blair

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2011
Messages
3,463
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :-)

I’m cognisant of member’s discretion in commenting, but the headstock shape alone should discount this from being a legitimate late ‘50s Gibson, and the control cavity is also incorrect. Guitars like this seem to surface in the UK every few months, with notably similar traits (I’ve seen three this month alone), and I doubt this is any different.

I have similar feelings. The top looks right, but there' s so many other issues. Serial is way too early for that finish and reflectors, but the headstock and whole back look as though they've been refinished. Mustache is weird. The control cavity is weird. I don 't know what to make of it.
 

Zapper

Active member
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
308
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :-)

Thanks all! I think the headstock is ok - certainly not as pointed as my other LPs. And the serial number stamp certainly looks original. I've had a fairly knowledgeable collector have a good look at the guitar so I'm pretty sure I know what needs sorting.

JJ, what's a 'chew out' though please?! I'll have a look for one!

Rob, I'm in Billericay near London if anyone knows a good wood restorer in that area..

Sweiger, in what way do you think the LP script looks odd..? The font? Spacing? Looks ok to me although it's a bit scratched which doesn't help...

Incidentally, I found some single line single ring Klusons on Reverb (for GBP500) but they look a bit too knackered to me... Worth a punt though possibly?

https://reverb.com/item/13327049-gi...tuners-perfect-for-any-les-paul-etc-1957-1965

Cheers!
Ian

uwxznoyhpdvkazcmp2gj.jpg
 

JJ Blair

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2011
Messages
3,463
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :-)

Thanks all! I think the headstock is ok - certainly not as pointed as my other LPs. And the serial number stamp certainly looks original. I've had a fairly knowledgeable collector have a good look at the guitar so I'm pretty sure I know what needs sorting.

JJ, what's a 'chew out' though please?! I'll have a look for one!

Bottom corner of the cavity, there's a piece "chewed out" of the wall, where the router chuck makes contact, from being at an angle. All LP's have them, but yours doesn't, which is curious.

2410_p39003.jpg
 

S. Weiger

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
2,079
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :-)

Sweiger, in what way do you think the LP script looks odd..? The font? Spacing? Looks ok to me although it's a bit scratched which doesn't help...


Cheers!
Ian

1) too bright gold color
2) End of the "P" (If you start writing from top, vertical down): the line should be thinner after it has crossed the vertical downstroke, before the downstroke it should be thicker than it is on your pic.
3) bottom of "a" & end of "l" in "Paul" : Line should be thinner
 
Last edited:

JJ Blair

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 9, 2011
Messages
3,463
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :-)

One other note, there's no way that's the correct serial number with that finish and reflectors. It's much later, and double rings are certainly a possibility. However, if the headstock has already been drilled to accommodate larger tuners, I would just go with Grovers. They work way better than Klusons, and I think the added mass helps the guitar sound better.
 

Jumping@Shadows

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 11, 2003
Messages
1,347
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :-)

It’d take the 3-4 blokes in the UK who I personally trust about 15 mins to determine if this is a highly anomalous £six figure sum ‘60 Burst, or a low £four figure fake with clunky build accuracy, and I’d personally be motived to find out.
 

S. Weiger

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
2,079
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :-)

It’d take the 3-4 blokes in the UK who I personally trust about 15 mins to determine if this is a highly anomalous £six figure sum ‘60 Burst, or a low £four figure fake with clunky build accuracy, and I’d personally be motived to find out.

But doesn't it have the widows peak ?
:couch
 

jimmi

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Messages
2,186
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :-)

One other note, there's no way that's the correct serial number with that finish and reflectors. It's much later, and double rings are certainly a possibility. However, if the headstock has already been drilled to accommodate larger tuners, I would just go with Grovers. They work way better than Klusons, and I think the added mass helps the guitar sound better.


Agree with this.

In response to your earlier post, don’t you think there are chew marks on the wall near the neck volume knob?

I think there are.
 

Rich R

In the Zone/Backstage Pass
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
4,999
Re: Restoring my 1960 'Burst... need HELP..!! :-)

It’d take the 3-4 blokes in the UK who I personally trust about 15 mins to determine if this is a highly anomalous £six figure sum ‘60 Burst, or a low £four figure fake with clunky build accuracy, and I’d personally be motived to find out.

I think this is an excellent suggestion (really the only intelligent way to go), and would also like to commend the folks posing the questions for their helpful and respectful approach.

One thing I thought of would be to check the neck shape, and see if it's roughly consistent w those with late-'60 color, knobs, etc. Most of the originals are pretty distinctive in that regard. Of course, that would still leave the inconsistent serial #, and the rest.
 
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