Why Not More Madagascar Rosewood Hype?

[Sol]

This was a nice pair, the ES from 2008, the LP from 2004. I had a number of Gibsons with Madagascar RW, and I thought it had a nice feel. But ultimately, the two best reissues I ever had were IR - a 2010 and a 2016 - not my Brazilians, and not my Madagascar guitars.

Indian Rosewood is a Dalbergia unique to the Indian subcontinent. It is by far the most familiar and widely used Rosewood in musical instrument manufacturing, and I love it without reservation. It has a tone and response immediately familiar to practically millions of guitarists around the globe. Unlike BRW and MRW it is somewhat renewable due to the ethical commercial growing in ideal conditions that could ethically sustain the species, a good thing.

Two of my Les Paul's use it. My 1992 Standard appears to be Indian, while my 1996 Special is without doubt of Indonesian origin, dark browns with auburn and purple shading.

So 20 yrs on and I follow the old man into guitar building, we use Braz Rosewood. I was shocked at the difference the board made, and initially didn't like it. It was as different as a Maple board would be. You know it when you hear it.
I'd played numerous historics and really liked several, but the moment I played a 2004 with a MRW board I heard exactly what Id heard with our BRW board guitars, and led me to the 2004 R7 I play today.
Had I known then what I know now about the fragility of Madagascars rain forest I would simply have bought a Historic Les Paul, removed the IR board and replace it with one of our legally obtained BRW boards
and be done with it.

Getting used to the response of a Rosewood with little commonality with IR takes a little adjustment
and any claims to superiority of one over the other should be approached with caution. It took me the best part of a Yr to acclimatise to the difference in response. Whilst I now appreciate BRW and MRW I would never change the IR boards of my 1992 Standard or 1996 Special, the ability to change could alter forever the quality's that make them so special.

 

[Rich R]

I commission a lot of personal builds, and i always specify BRW for the frertboards. In the case of acoustics, same for the back and sides. Why would I agree to anything else? It's not exactly in short supply, and it DEFINITELY sounds the best.

 

[Sol]

I commission a lot of personal builds, and i always specify BRW for the frertboards. In the case of acoustics, same for the back and sides. Why would I agree to anything else? It's not exactly in short supply, and it DEFINITELY sounds the best.

Are these commission's on behalf of a third party as your business, or are they commissioned for your personal collection? Either way I'm interested to know more if your okay?

BRW is a remarkable tone wood, as a fingerboard or the back and sides of acoustics it rings like a bell. I've spent many hours in an OCD induced trance 'tapping' obsessively fingerboard blanks against neck blanks, back and forth, back and forth.. I swear it's not healthy, but you do learn despite the permanent nervous twitch it leaves you with ???

 

[Sol]

I just purchased this 2004 Gibson R9 with a 1 piece top. I have been advised the fingerboard is Madagascar Rosewood

it is being shipped to me now so I am hoping it is as nice in person as it is in pictures

Bill

Bill, it would be great to hear from you regarding your 2004 R9. A one piece top is so rare, a tone report with pics would be fantastic.

 

[Sol]

It would be great to hear from Rich R and Bill Kemp, if possible..

 

[Bill Kemp]

It would be great to hear from Rich R and Bill Kemp, if possible..

Hey folks:

Bill Kemp here:

I am sorry I have not been on the forum in a very long time. I did end up buying the one piece top Les Paul from Overseas. I was not impressed with the guitar when it arrived. It did not look at all similar to the guitar in the pictures which showed beautiful rich colors and wonderful flame on the one piece top. The color on the body and neck was lovely as well.

I specifically asked them about how the guitar appeared. They must have used really bright lighting to bring out the flame and took the pictures a long time before I bought it.

The guitar arrived all faded out and had no flame at all in it. Not like the pictures at all on Reverb or their website. The color of the body and back of the neck was also very pale red. More orange in color not st all like the pictures presented on the website.

I immediately sent it back and then went through a long painful task of getting most of my money back

I ended up losing just over $500 US on the guitar as I got stuck with shipping fees both ways.

Then I had to battle Canada Customs to get my HST tax and import duties back on the guitar.

In the end end I got it back but was so annoyed at the whole process.

I guess it serves me right for buying something over seas.

Anyway, I did not play the guitar at all so no sound clips or opinions on the guitar.

Just a bitter taste Left in my mouth.

Oh well:

Take care everyone.


Bill Kemp


PS: I am still looking for a nice Les Paul but for now will just play my 1997 Gibson ES 355 or my 1993 Les Paul Special DC TV Yellow.

 

[Sol]

Bill, this was not the report we were expecting, but of far more consequence is that the expected guitar was so far from what you where assured, the images you were sent as evidence of the guitar you were paying for was not the guitar you received.. Is that a fair summary?
In any event I'm sure we are all disappointed for you having to go through such a painful experience. If your experience was the first it would still be one too many.

 

[El Gringo]

I just wanted to jump into the conversation about any noticeable tonal differences between Brazilian Rosewood fingerboards versus Indian Rosewood fingerboards on Gibson Custom R9's . Unfortunately I cannot report a scintilla of difference in the tonal properties between the 2 species of rosewood . I have 2 2018 R9's with Brazilian Rosewood and 5 R9's with Indian Rosewood and I can't hear a difference at all . I will also say that all of the Les Paul's are loaded with ThroBak MXV-SLE-101 Plus pickups with A5 magnets and I have been using the Marshall 2555X's into cabs loaded with Celestion Vintage 30's speakers . So everything is played thru the same rig/set up . The only difference was in the feel of the actually Brazilian rosewood fretboard last Saturday as the board felt a little slick/slippery as the heat and humidity were high , so just a little bit slick . Which people have mentioned that and I finally had that affect .

 

[pdfiddler]

You know I hear that alot, but most of the BRW acoustics I've encountered had cracked. Most of the guitars with BRW finger boards had deep divits. I still have some I bought in the 70's that were barely 10 to 14 years old and divited, while my EIW fingerboard guitars have seen considerably more hard playing time have barely any.

I trust my experience, I always do. I have no issue with EIRW and I prefer it. BRW is certainly prettier, beautiful just gorgeous. I like it on acoustics. My tastes are mine and like I said, I have no issue with it, it takes nothing away from my enjoyment of my guitar. I miss nothing at all and all is well.

I've seen EIRW on Martin's very close to BRW cosmetically. Beautiful stuff

 

[pdfiddler]

I just wanted to jump into the conversation about any noticeable tonal differences between Brazilian Rosewood fingerboards versus Indian Rosewood fingerboards on Gibson Custom R9's . Unfortunately I cannot report a scintilla of difference in the tonal properties between the 2 species of rosewood . I have 2 2018 R9's with Brazilian Rosewood and 5 R9's with Indian Rosewood and I can't hear a difference at all . I will also say that all of the Les Paul's are loaded with ThroBak MXV-SLE-101 Plus pickups with A5 magnets and I have been using the Marshall 2555X's into cabs loaded with Celestion Vintage 30's speakers . So everything is played thru the same rig/set up . The only difference was in the feel of the actually Brazilian rosewood fretboard last Saturday as the board felt a little slick/slippery as the heat and humidity were high , so just a little bit slick . Which people have mentioned that and I finally had that affect .

I think it's all in the feel also

 

[Sol]

I just wanted to jump into the conversation about any noticeable tonal differences between Brazilian Rosewood fingerboards versus Indian Rosewood fingerboards on Gibson Custom R9's . Unfortunately I cannot report a scintilla of difference in the tonal properties between the 2 species of rosewood . I have 2 2018 R9's with Brazilian Rosewood and 5 R9's with Indian Rosewood and I can't hear a difference at all . I will also say that all of the Les Paul's are loaded with ThroBak MXV-SLE-101 Plus pickups with A5 magnets and I have been using the Marshall 2555X's into cabs loaded with Celestion Vintage 30's speakers . So everything is played thru the same rig/set up . The only difference was in the feel of the actually Brazilian rosewood fretboard last Saturday as the board felt a little slick/slippery as the heat and humidity were high , so just a little bit slick . Which people have mentioned that and I finally had that affect .

I think it's pure folly to challenge the subjective playing experience recorded by the poster above. After all if you don't hear it and don't feel it, there is an end to the matter.. It serves no purpose to argue a point over a tone wood component considered irelevant, regardless of what others may think or feel. It's not worth falling out over.

However, we must acknowledge that there is huge demand to aquire the very limited number of reissue Les Paul's issued with BRZ Rosewood boards over the yrs, with the MRZ board guitars a close/distant second... However..

I genuinely struggle to square the obsessive preoccupation with the fascinating complexity of PAF pickups, the metallurgical composition of vintage bridge components, down to the precise chemical make up of capacitors, and the hotly disputed values and frequency curves of 50 yr old vol and tone pots, only to dissmis the fingerboard as an irelevance playing no meaningful roll in the tone of vintage 52-60 Gibson Les Paul's ?

 

[J.D.]

Of course the fingerboard wood matters. The frets are seated directly into it. As PRS would say, if the fingerboard was made of rubber would it affect the guitar's tone? Of course it would. So now were debating how much. EIRW and BRW have very different mechanical properties and sound different when blanks are tapped. Of course EIRW can work well and be part of a good sounding guitar. But if you are looking for genuine Burst DNA it's Brazilian. Madagascar is a very close substitute from my research and experience, much moreso than East Indian. YMMV yadda yadda.

 

[Sol]

Of course the fingerboard wood matters. The frets are seated directly into it. As PRS would say, if the fingerboard was made of rubber would it affect the guitar's tone? Of course it would. So now were debating how much. EIRW and BRW have very different mechanical properties and sound different when blanks are tapped. Of course EIRW can work well and be part of a good sounding guitar. But if you are looking for genuine Burst DNA it's Brazilian. Madagascar is a very close substitute from my research and experience, much moreso than East Indian. YMMV yadda yadda.

" Of course the fingerboard wood matters. The frets are seated directly into it". This cuts to the heart of why the fingerboard matters. The guitar hears nothing that is not filtered through the frets and fingerboard through which all frequencies are filtered prior to being heard.

 

[J.D.]

Check out some data that I've compiled from the online "wood database". You can see Madagascar sort of bridges Brazilian and Gaboon (genuine) Ebony. Absolutely wonderful stuff. EIRW on the other hand is good material in it's own right, but BRW it is not. I've fortunately been able to handle all of these types of woods unprocessed. They feel different, look different, and when tapped and clanked around sound different. There are similarities, no question, and all make fine fretboard woods, but it's these small differences that all add up.

 

[guitplayer]

Check out some data that I've compiled from the online "wood database". You can see Madagascar sort of bridges Brazilian and Gaboon (genuine) Ebony. Absolutely wonderful stuff. EIRW on the other hand is good material in it's own right, but BRW it is not. I've fortunately been able to handle all of these types of woods unprocessed. They feel different, look different, and when tapped and clanked around sound different. There are similarities, no question, and all make fine fretboard woods, but it's these small differences that all add up.

I clean this board on my 2005 R8 which has madagascar rosewood.? all the time.
Is it possible that while bending the strings it breaksdown the wood down and moves it like this?
Its not dirt. [FONT=Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif]<a data-flickr-embed="true"href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/185825126@N07/50117079757/in/dateposted-friend/" title="dirt"><img src="https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50117079757_5da2fe9f83_z.jpg" width="640" height="429" alt="dirt"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>[/FONT]

 

[J.D.]

Looks like typical fretboard grime buildup to me, but hard to tell for sure not seeing it in person. Try something like naptha or very gently polish/scrape it away.

 

[guitplayer]

I have and do cleanit like that. It seems to keep looking this way.
I think its wood breaking down and pushed . IDK

 

[Sol]

Looks like typical fretboard grime buildup to me, but hard to tell for sure not seeing it in person. Try something like naptha or very gently polish/scrape it away.

Guitarplayer we can all assure you that your fingerboard is not wearing away, and that the advice above is the answer to your concern.
Keeping your board clean prevents mold taking hold at the base of your frets. A stiff tooth brush is ideal.

 

[Sol]

Check out some data that I've compiled from the online "wood database". You can see Madagascar sort of bridges Brazilian and Gaboon (genuine) Ebony. Absolutely wonderful stuff. EIRW on the other hand is good material in it's own right, but BRW it is not. I've fortunately been able to handle all of these types of woods unprocessed. They feel different, look different, and when tapped and clanked around sound different. There are similarities, no question, and all make fine fretboard woods, but it's these small differences that all add up.

View attachment 11762

Interesting stuff.. I'll do a search for it, thanks for posting bud..

 

[guitplayer]

Guitarplayer we can all assure you that your fingerboard is not wearing away, and that the advice above is the answer to your concern.
Keeping your board clean prevents mold taking hold at the base of your frets. A stiff tooth brush is ideal.

right , I hear you. But I`ve cleaned it many times. This keeps happening but not with
others sitting right here with more playing hrs. IDK. My hands are clean:laugh2::hmm